Here is what I am looking at for magic types starting from weakest to strongest:
Magic spells/scrolls-these will be smaller effects like "raven sight" or "darkness" or "dancing light" Think of IQ8/IQ9 spells
Magic wards/symbols-These will be more powerful spell types but requires the sorcerer to spend time crafting the ward and it will activate rather than being cast
Magic Circles-these, like wards, have to be prepared prior to being activated. Circles of protection, of summoning, teleportation...these will be the high IQ powerful stuff...that may requires a sacrifice to power.
As the majority of spells will require a lot of player time/effort to work--how much fun will it be to play/referee this kind of magic system? Considering the normal "spell-slinger" experience will this actually be playable/interesting?
I think it is playable and interesting as long as you have the frame of mind set when play begins. It will be quite different from what most are used to.
ReplyDeleteFingers crossed the "fireball" fans will dig it!
Deletei really dig it. will there be a stated times required to produce wards and circles?
ReplyDeletei really dig the idea of some shamanistic looking 'wizard' pouring out some magic sand to form a pentagram. then, dagger in one hand, he begins making cuts on the other forearm. as he begins to speak in a strange tongue, blood drips from his self-mutalations, hissing and smoking upon the earth between the lines of sand...
Hey ewookie--yup I am still working out what the time per war or per circle will be. As well as an opportunity to cut the time by increasing the dice to roll to succeed. Failure means not only is the spell not cast...but there could be a mutation or after effect.
Delete1 turn=5 seconds
Initial thoughts--WARD take 1 turn per IQ of the ward spell, so IQ 12 ward=12 turns to complete (1 minute)
A circle would be 3 turns per IQ of the circle, so IQ12 circle=36 turns to complete (3 minutes)
Still needs work--but that's a first pass.
with such long prep times, do you think many PCs will use magic? i can't imagine many will. those that try will likely quickly die. lo-magic and no-magic can be cool but it seems pointless to spend time engineering a magic system that doesn't get used.
ReplyDeletei guess i should also ask: will there be any way for 'magic-users' to improve their prep times? if so, that could be a lure.
Deleteok. maybe the wards and circles are performed during 'down-time'? like, the wards could be created during the day while PCs take a break. the circles get created around the campfire at night. they don't take effect until the voo-doo man activates them 'at-will' during the heat of battle? am i on the right wavelength?
ReplyDeletei could see that sort of thing being useful to PCs. with the stated intent of having no healing spells or potions, it would still be costly. a ward that costs 1-2 ST or wounds would take a day or two to recover from. a circle (3-6 ST?) would take 3-6 days to recover from. costly, but still useful in limited supplies.
Deletei wonder if it would kill the vibe if the voo-doo man suffered permanent ST loss until the wards or circles were 'activated' - at which point, he would recover the ST invested. makes a voo-doo man want to gamble most of his life away when he thinks he can get it back whenever he pleases...
of course, if the subject of the ward or circle were to die or be destroyed before he could withdraw his investments, ol' voo-doo man would find himself in the poor-house of life.
Deletewhoa. backup. i guess i should have asked: will the ST or wound costs be exacted at creation time or at activation time? i was thinking at creation time...
DeleteThe blood cost is paid when activated--not when the ward or circle is constructed. I think I previously noted there would be an opportunity to "speed up" casting but it requires rolling more dice to be successful.
DeleteRemember, there will be "normal" direct spells that can be cast but they will be of lower power...the "high power" summoning type or protection spells will require more time (ward/circle)
yes, i got the note about speed-up and casting more die. i was asking if there would be anything else that could speed things up.
Deleteso, can the wards and circles be created in PC 'down-time' or not? do they have expiration times? (you create now but must be activated within hours, days, etc.)
Well if it "speeds up" even more then its just regular spell casting my friend. :)
DeleteYes wards (and circles) are only activated when the blood price is paid. So a ward can be drawn in advance then activated later. Same with circles--but a circle (because it is drawn and may require components may not be as easy to leave around and wait to activate. If a line is broken or an element is missing and then the blood price is paid...who knows what could happen!
I like what I see so far. Plague touch, nice! Illusions, mists/fogs, summoning, that's the stuff. So, I figure an experienced wizard can summon a fairly power creature on fairly short order. I'm thinking Thoth-Amon in "The Phoenix on the Sword". What about pacts with demons and such?
ReplyDeleteThanks, still working it all out--lots of notes an research being done. I don't have it all locked in but am working to see what fits and makes sense. I'd rather cast a wide net and filter it than think I know it all and miss some good stuff.
Deletei think i 'get it' on the wards. i still feel clueless about the circles tho. if a circle takes 3 turns per IQ level to create, at IQ12 that is 36 turns to create a circle. the prospect of a line getting broken or an element stolen during that time is very high if your performing this in the middle of a battle.
ReplyDeleteso, it seems like you have to do these in 'down-time' (time outside of a battle). i guess what your last post is saying is that wards will not expire before activation but circles might. the use-case for circles would seem to be: create and activate just before a battle.
A circle is a pre-prepared spell used for powerful effects like for summoning a creature or for placing a dead body in and making the dead talk or for animating a corpse or for providing a "ring of protection" around the wizard, or creating a teleportation portal or for animating an in animate object.
DeleteCircle magic is a slower prepared, powerful magic in an S&S setting. It is not meant to be the (now) standard I cast "mega fireball" kind of thing. Not sure how else I can explain it--and I can't even say you will like it--but it is what it is and fits the S&S setting.
thanks! that agrees with everything i was thinking and said. i like it.
ReplyDeleteone last question (i hope). will the IQ test for 'casting' be performed for the creation of a ward or circle OR will the IQ test be performed at activation time. or both? or for each turn while creating? i'm thinking just activation time but i want to be sure because i know i don't know it all ;)
ReplyDeleteRemains to be seen, arguments can be made for creation roll and an activation roll... but I am not convinced that is really necessary...
Deletehere's my perspective: one roll at activation time. one roll keeps it simple. voo-doo man performs his ritual to the best of his ability and knowledge. he won't know if he 'got it right' until he attempts to activate. as you said, there could be consequences if he didn't get it right.
Deleteif the roll is made at creation time, it isn't harmonious with those low-level spells that can be cast at will. also, voo-doo man would know in advance if he performed the ritual correctly. he won't attempt to activate until after he has made a successful creation test.
if a roll is made at creation time AND another at activation time, you have the previously mentioned problems associated with JUST a creation-time roll. voo-doo man will keep retrying his ritual until he 'gets it right'. if he got the ritual/creation right, why would he fail at activation?
of course, if you only roll at activation time it kinda takes the umph out of the whole creation/ritual idea doesn't it? seriously, players are going to create wards and circles outside of combat. it would be down-right silly to have voo-doo man over in the corner of a battle drawing a circle on the ground for 12+ rounds while a battle rages nearby. the enemy will not ignore him. he will be interrupted. even if he isn't interrupted, the battle - for which he is trying to work his magic - will most likely be over by the time he finishes.
outside of combat, 3 x IQ18 = 54turns = 270seconds = 4.5minutes = pfff, no time at all. the whole 'ritual description' becomes nothing more than 'flavor text' unless there are components lost in creation failure - components that cost PCs something.
i'm not opposed to any of this. i'm just making sure some things are pointed out. i favor one roll at activation time for simplicity but i'm all for rolling at creation time too - if there are component costs to make it meaningful.
actually, the thoughts in my post above are why i originally, incorrectly assumed that ST? cost would be exacted at creation time instead of activation time. it puts a limit on the # of wards and circles voodoo man can have in existence. it also means he has committed himself to particular spells.
Deleteall this has called up a memory long forgotten. i seem to recall being forced to 'prepare' a spell before combat back in the late 80s. i could only have one spell prepared at a time (perhaps more at higher levels). it was basically the same as having a weapon readied. if we got into combat and i wanted to use a spell that wasn't 'readied', i had to spend time 'preparing' it before i could actually cast it.
additional thoughts if you decide to take the 'ST cost at creation time' approach...(if you weren't already thinking this)...
ReplyDeletethe spells, wards, and circles require blood. it can be voodoo man's blood or someone or something else's blood. the blood becomes the 'component requirement'. if it only costs 1-2 ST, voodoo man might simply cut himself (flavor text) to pay the cost. if the ST costs are substantial or if the voodoo man wants to have lots of creations waiting to be activated, he can buy chickens, goats, virgins, etc. and spill their blood instead.
Really appreciate all the great insights and ideas in your responses--more grist for the mental mill is always welcome!
Deletemy blood is yours, voodoo man. summon forth fierce beasts to lead us into battle.
Deleteanother bit of grist found it's way into my mental mill. creation is a DX test. activation is an IQ test. not fond of this at the moment but there is some logic to it.
ReplyDeletei've got some more blood to spill :)
ReplyDeletehave you considered making the 'prep times' equal to the ST/wound/blood costs? 1 to 6 turns/rounds to prepare?
1 to 6 being my guess at the range of ST costs. of course, if there are any higher ST costs that's great too.
DeleteThanks for all the interesting ideas. Not sure about both IQ/DX for wards/circles--still prefer the IQ based test to properly create/cast.
ReplyDeleteThe ST costs will be quite high for some circle spells...necessitating a high ST price (8...maybe more) to summon creatures, create void gates and other circle based spells.
Then there are interesting enemies like the savage witchmen...who have all sorts of strange wards they draw on their skin and when wounded in combat, their blood loss may trigger a spell effect.
More to come
yeah, i was never in favor of the DX and IQ test. i just threw that out there because i suspect this sort of 'ritualized' magic is what mr. jackson had in mind when he made casting spells require a DX test.
ReplyDeletei really do dig your ideas and concepts on this. it is nice to see some spell prep times introduced and the 'blood-letting' is a great way of explaining the mechanic of spells costing life.
i was wondering if it was in your thoughts to allow wounds from combat to power some magic. now i see that it is. nice.
one of my biggest likes, however, is how well this meshes with those typical cult/priest/human sacrifice plot-lines.
Delete