One of the additions I am considering is the defensive action Broken Shield: A shield may be sacrificed in battle to absorb 3x it's normal AR from one attack. The shield is then useless, broken and provides no further AR protection.
In essence you give up your shield to soak up 3x its normal damage protection--but it's destroyed immediately after. Thoughts or issues?
does Broken Shield require any kind of test? like 3/DX? if not, sounds great. if a test is required, i don't see the point. will there be a Broken Weapon too?
ReplyDeleteon second thought, i can't imagine anyone ever sacrificing their small, AR1 shield to stop 3 points of damage when they could possibly stop all damage with a Shield Block. perhaps the hit stoppage should be 6 plus the AR of the shield? or just sacrifice the shield for one guaranteed (no test) Shield Block?
ReplyDeletealso, there was some discussion on the trollsmyth blog about how to handle this for magic shields. i'm not sure if it was ever decided. i stopped reading the comments after the first 20 spam posts. the best proposed method i saw went like this:
ReplyDeletea +3 shield becomes a +2 shield after the Broken Shield option is taken. +2 becomes +1. so forth.
if the shield did not have a magical bonus like that - if it just granted some ability - i'd treat it like a normal shield for Broken Shield purposes.
Adam--thanks for all the thoughts and comments. To answer your questions:
Delete1) Nope--no test needed
2) You never know what a player may decide to do, so I err on making option available rather than limiting. If someone wants to sacrifice their buckler for whatever reason, they can!
3) That is an interesting option, I thought about using a system in which a player with a magic shield rolls 1d6, on a 5+ it breaks. So there is a risk every-time of destruction.
This rule exists in some of the OSR D&D clones, but the shield is sacrificed to completely stop one attack. I'd prefer that.
ReplyDeleteThat is a much cleaner system Brett. The quandary is (in most OSR games) there is only 1 type of shield, where HOW differentiates between 3 different kind.
DeleteSo two questions to ponder--are 3 different shield types really necessary in HOW? If not then 1 shield to rule them all and the suggested destruction rule could apply.
Second, if 3 types are okay in HOW, should any shield type be able to be sacrificed to block on attack, regardless of damage soaked up? In this case a buckler could be sacrificed to stop the same amount as a Tower shield. With 3 different shields it may be difficult for some to say a buckler could stop the same attack a tower shield could, but I am open to hearing opinions.
Chris, I agree - you never know what sort of stupid thing a player will do.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Brett, which is pretty much a guaranteed successful Shield Block. How does it make sense that a Shield Block can stop all damage from an attack (even 12d6 damage!) yet split asunder when it stops 3-9 points of damage? LOL
I have players who'd load up a mule and hirelings with spare shields to pass to them.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Brett - one shield for one attack. I'd also simplify the shield types to one.
i agree with Geordie, for the most part. if you read the comments and discussion on the trollsmyth blog, this came up: players scavenging and hoarding every shield they can find. i think this is a potential problem no matter how you rule it (3x AR vs. all damage) but i will admit this: the 3x AR method would cut down on some of it. bucklers will almost never be sacrificed. some logic there. smaller usually means harder to break. medium and large shields will tempt players more to make the sacrifice. again, some size logic there. so, i guess the hoarding would depend on how readily available or costly medium and large shields are in your game.
ReplyDeletethe nice thing about 3 shield types is that they all stop different amounts of damage whether actively used or not; the more they stop, the more DX penalty you take for lugging them around. so, i'm not an advocate for reducing 3 shield types to 1 but i'm open to the idea and will think and investigate further.
an easy solution to the shield mule is to feed it to a dragon or something. as for taking shields from slain foes, make sure the foes sacrifice the shields before they die.
the argument from Chris about a buckler stopping the same amount as a tower doesn't really seem relevent...unless you change the Shield Block rules, a buckler already does this.
ReplyDeleteShield rules will change if the destruction option is added
Deleteglad to hear that!
Deleteif Shield Block is rewritten to stop 3x AR damage, i'm all for the original plan...but i think that triggers a rewrite of Dodge and Parry as well. to be honest, in my own games, i already limit the damage reduction of Dodge, Block, and Parry to the result of the passing test. the shield's AR is still factored into the passive damage reduction of all armor.
ReplyDelete"3) That is an interesting option, I thought about using a system in which a player with a magic shield rolls 1d6, on a 5+ it breaks. So there is a risk every-time of destruction."
ReplyDeleteyes, a 1 in 6 or 16% chance the shield is destroyed...but it's an 83% chance they get off scot-free!
reducing the magic bonus of the shield seems simply and less soft.
5+ (meaning 5 or 6) would be a 33% chance of breaking per use to stop all damage.
Deletemy bad. still, 66% chance of 0 consequences.
Deletei decided i'm good with one shield type (mechanically) if shields no longer offer passive protection (or incur a DX penalty) - they only protect with Shield Block and Broken Shield. Broken Shield should negate all damage from the attack. Officially, Shield Block could still negate all damage from the attack - but i will still limit it as i currently do.
ReplyDeleteIf there is one shield type it would be the -2 AR, -1DX version. As to the further rule changes, it is a work in progress.
DeleteAR2,-1DX: i thought about that. -1DX for all shields basically means all Shield Blocks are +1 DRM and all shields block 2 points of damage passively. my way made more sense to me but different strokes/folks. i look forward to your progress.
DeleteNot loving it. Sorry. I'm late to the party, busy with a freelance writing project. Anyways, you want to simulate splintering shields, give shields AR and ST. Everytime a successful block occurs, the shield takes damage. If you wanna keep it simple, have the shield take a number of hits based upon the the size. On a successful hit, the shield is damaged. If not repaired with 3D/Armorer, and struck again it's destroyed. I've been using the shield, armor, and weapon damage system since starting to run the game a few months ago and the players spend time and resources repairing their gear or they watch it disintegrate.
ReplyDeletethat is very realistic, but that's a lot of nitty-gritty book-keeping. no thanks.
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